Comments on Chapter 60: The Swarm
Pages: 1
CuriousJolteon
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
In another comment I mentioned one of the things I find jarring about Scyther occasionally taking over the fic is that Mark barely reacts and is just completely uninterested in Scyther's character arc, when he really should be.
But reading this commentary I think another reason it's odd is that only a couple of Mark's Pokemon get even close to this much attention. If all of them got something like this, it wouldn't stand out so much. So in the rewrite it'll probably be a lot better since you'll be treating all of the main characters as people from the start.
[06/10/2024 16:48:35]
Narnik
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
I see. So, if I have this straight, Nightmare wants to throw out Code-as-Binding-Contract/Law, but not necessarily Code-as-Coping-System. Yes, that makes sense. I interpreted the text as saying "she wants to throw out the Code entirely, from Law to Belief".
In my original post, we were wondering "but then how are they going to get over the fact that they kill for a living?" I feel that the Code-as-Coping system actually works quite well in that area, and I wanted to ask what other coping mechanisms Nightmare/you had in mind for the swarm. But then that question's now irrelevant, because she's not implicitly throwing out Code-as-Coping.
Again, I feel that the Code works well. But its overextension was definitely a problem, as TFoaL shows. To that end, I guess there should just be the freedom to cope with the fact of murder in a different way; certainly, the freedom to refuse a state-installed doctrine.
[11/22/2013 06:13:01]
Narnik (and also Micah)
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
Are there really any ways to structure the swarm that completely ditch the Code? Nightmare's arguments against it mostly come from her time with humans. But Scyther still kill and eat sentient beings, and parts of the Code help Scyther cope with that fact. "Do not kill without accepting that one day it will be you who is killed," after all.
Micah (friend of mine) adds that there's a difference between what's best for society and morality; a difference between the necessity of killing and the reluctance/outright wrongness of killing. The Code exists as law, but morals exist as instinct.
(Admittedly, I'm a little bit tired, and I can't quite fully phrase it. So let me copy/paraphrase what he said:
"Well, if morality isn't determined by what is best for society, then there must be some overarching moral structure. Something that exists within each, or at least most, individuals…what determines the morality of the Scyther in this case? Not what's best for the swarm, not what's best for the individual…what is it?")
Reply: Well, equivocating morality with the law is basically exactly what the Code is doing in the first place, and that's what Nightmare has a problem with. As it is, the Code is a rigid set of rules hammered into them as not just principles of what's best for individuals or best for the swarm but the one and only definition of integrity and worth. It leads to situations like her being obligated to kill Razor for the utterly unremarkable personal failure of challenging a stronger opponent to a true duel in the heat of the moment, just to prove she's willing to face death - a pointless multi-layered insistence on punishment that benefits no one. The basic ideas the Code is rooted in, like the philosophy of accepting your own death if you're going to kill other creatures, aren't what she has a problem with - it's that she feels everyone is suffering for the insistence on strict adherence to the brutal system derived from these ideas.
Their actual moral instincts are really pretty similar to ours - they feel empathy, and they feel suffering is bad. The Code grew from a simple philosophical coping strategy and into what tried to be a consistent replacement moral system (not just a law) but was often incongruous with those actual moral instincts.
I'm not sure I quite follow what exactly Micah is referring to, without the context of that paragraph, so apologies if I'm misunderstanding your point.
[11/22/2013 01:11:58]
mamma
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
Þetta er fallegt og vel skrifað. Smá orðalagsflækjur á stöku stað, alla vega sem ollu mér vandræðum við að skilja samhengið.
[10/26/2012 15:31:46]
ShinyCharizard
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
Yes something told me you were not going to eternally screw up the story by Scyther leaving
[06/28/2012 21:03:38]
Iris
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
This is a really nice story! When are you gonna update, Dragonfree!?
ARGHGReply: It probably won't be too long. You can follow the progress with the next chapter on the Quest Blog (the top is up-to-date with the current status).
[04/14/2012 18:46:05]
LiliTriton
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
Love it! :D I can't wait till the next chapter!
[03/17/2012 09:39:32]
Unknown
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
Wow!! Razor finally goes back to his past! I actually remembered really clearly his whole backstory - well, the general idea any way. It's amazing how Shadowdart turned out like that, but I geuss that's what something like the Code does to you. Like in real life. It was melancholy, expecially when Stormblade was sitting there, looking in the stars, and it fit.
I'm glad Razor's finally seeing new things, like with the Code. I was scared he actually might leave, but thank goodness he's staying. He sounds like he's going to be happier now.
[02/12/2012 01:07:00]
Gravey
Story: The Quest for the Legends (ILCOE)
Chapter: Chapter 60: The Swarm
Nice job! Nightmare will make a great leader, even though there are a few Scythers who clearly won't like her.
Nightmare's mindset made my head spin for a bit too… o_O
[02/04/2012 19:03:18]
Pages: 1